Wyrd Gods Discussion (please use spoiler tag)

[Steve 7,540]

Discussion for Wyrd Gods, please use spoiler tag and mention chapter number!

 

 

[Frank 503]

A Storm of Swords took me 3 weeks as well, @Susana Imaginário. Thanks for the fun discussion @Steve, @Layla Azmi Goushey and Susana.

Look forward to diving back into Timelessness with  @Ric, @Varsha, Layla, Steve, Susanna.

Wyrd Gods Chapter 1 quote and musings:

Spoiler

 

"Before I became a deity, I used to be human: the lowest and the newest of the mortal races. Now I’m a dryad, one of the Olympians’ creations. Still fairly human-shaped – for gods are narcissistic creatures by nature and therefore tend to design their creations to their image – this body feels odd: longer and leaner, but somewhat stronger and springier than a human’s."

What does it mean to be human? Maybe start by placing an incorporeal god within Ileana's limiting dryad body to breathe anew, "weird" fantasy about timeless human nature. This book stimulates many thoughts. Why didn't I see the garish narcissism sooner when the writing has been on the wall for a while? Understanding is invariably shaped by experience. We don't know what we don't know and I have so much to learn. This entertaining book inspires, but time to Reach back to Wyrd Gods.

 

Wyrd Gods is even more enjoyable and rewarding on re-read. I'm only 9% in, but expect, with the help of Sarah Kempton's narration, to make rapid progress, at least for me.

[Steve 7,540]

I was hooked on Sarah Kempton's narration, so good! Finished it on Friday and plan to start book two this week.

It was funnier than I expected, some great dialogue that I could see Susana saying 😆

One of my favorite quotes, spoiler free:

Quote

"When faced with two paths, the shortest one is always the most hazardous. Both on the road and in life."

[Susana Imaginário 436]

5 hours ago, Frank said:

Wyrd Gods is even more enjoyable and rewarding on re-read.

 

Music to my ears 🥰
That was one of my goals: to write a book (or series,as it turned out) that would only be truly understood upon re-read. The first time is meant to entertain. The second to reflect  

[Frank 503]

15 hours ago, Steve said:

I was hooked on Sarah Kempton's narration, so good! Finished it on Friday and plan to start book two this week.

It was funnier than I expected, some great dialogue that I could see Susana saying 😆

One of my favorite quotes, spoiler free:

Yes @Steve. @Susana Imaginários writing and Sarah Kempton's narration are seamless together. I often forget I'm not listening to the characters themselves. I love the humor.

[Varsha 666]

About half way through. Am enjoying the humour, and am intrigued by the world 😊 

[Varsha 666]

Just now, Varsha said:

About half way through. Am enjoying the humour, and am intrigued by the world 😊 

Oh, also really happy to see Kali in the story 😅 Many stories that draw from mixed mythologies tend to leave out the Indian ones for some reason 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Frank 503]

15 hours ago, Susana Imaginário said:

Music to my ears 🥰
That was one of my goals: to write a book (or series,as it turned out) that would only be truly understood upon re-read. The first time is meant to entertain. The second to reflect  

Yes, @Susana Imaginário, Wyrd Gods has my stream of conscience flowing, just have to force myself to pause every few chapters and take time to process the gold nuggets before continuing the journey downstream.

1/4  until CHAPTER FIVE pages 1-87,  87 pages

Spoiler

• Merriam-Webster defines mythology as an allegorical (the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence) narrative. 
• "– for gods are narcissistic creatures by nature and therefore tend to design their creations to their image –" "I lean forward to look at my reflection – her reflection* Not Narcissus basking in himself, but Ileana Dveer seeing Agua, a daiad water nymph.
• *Hel knew the great god of mischief didn’t care about anyone but himself, not even his own children. And yet whenever they met ended up convincing her otherwise. " Loki, a covert narcissist. I'm triggered. 😈  The narcissist could think, "I don't need to outrun the giant dream wolf, only trip up my 'friend'."
 • "Someone cleared the vegetation around the cabin, where a peacock parades himself in front of a pen containing several chickens and two small ducks. Ideth gasps. “Oh no.”" Symbolism supreme. Human peacock pride, chicken cowardice and the ducking of responsibility, all to deflect focus from our destruction (deforestation, mass extinction, climate change, pestilence, etc).
• Ideth's mini-monologue on true love (not limerance), the unselfish caring link that is stronger than the all gods and beyond barriers, is profound, while at other times she's definitely deceptive.
• "Words are so limiting; they make communication slow, barbaric and easily misinterpreted. How come this Wyrd has kept his ability to Reach while I lost mine?" Only 7% of communication is verbal: https://londonimageinstitute.com/how-much-of-communication-is-nonverbal/
• "“Mnemosyne? What have I ever done to the goddess of memory?” “Maybe something you forgot,” Hades says sheepishly. I throw a rock at him, which he casually dodges with a chuckle." Word play and witticisms. 😊
• "– my temper surges at the realisation I’ve gone from fearing for my freedom to fearing for my figure. Having a body causes all sorts of absurd concerns besides physical pain, it seems." The human body and it's full range of emotions from vanity to fear and shame.
• Ileana "... I’ve always disliked the idea of eating other creatures and so I didn’t eat it often, preferring to live on vegetables and grain instead – a decision that made me very unpopular during feasts and family gatherings." 

Next stop halfway, if limited self-discipline allows.

Edited May 8 by Frank
I badly need an editor(s).

[Susana Imaginário 436]

@Frank  You've already picked up on more 'nuggets' than all my beta readers combined. I don't even know what to say... 'thank you' feels somewhat lacking. This deserves a contemporary dance piece filled with pirouettes, cartwheels and somersaults. 🥰

[Frank 503]

3 hours ago, Susana Imaginário said:

@Frank  You've already picked up on more 'nuggets' than all my beta readers combined. I don't even know what to say... 'thank you' feels somewhat lacking. This deserves a contemporary dance piece filled with pirouettes, cartwheels and somersaults. 🥰

Thank you, @Susana Imaginário, I'm very honored. Your generous and ebullient words (and novel!) are more than plenty. My two left feet and I are pleased that you are. Cheers.

[Frank 503]

2/4 until  CHAPTER  NINE, pages 88-192, 105 pages

Spoiler

• POVs begin to overlap, adding dimension, competing agendas and more sly wit. Who says multi-cam comedy is no longer effective?
• Sarah Kemton's breathless Fabrian and breathy Occa. Yes, please.
• Aeden, "Killing, even by indirect means, was an anathema to these creatures"
• "after all, currency is a language better understood than words." Wait for it.
• "On second thought, looking at the amount of touching going on between the man and the women, I wonder if I got the meaning of the word pray correct." prey/pray homophone.
• Iosh, "“You will. Relax.” The suggestion is as inappropriate as telling a famished dryad not to bask." Command someone to 'Relax,' then watch them do everything but. Add this player, in pencil for now, to the Arya list.
• Ideth, "Few things pleased cowards more than exerting power over the powerless."
• Ideth, "The Wyrd was standing in front of the snake, all but inviting it to swallow her. Foreseeing the horror that was about to happen, Ideth did what she always had in those situations – she rationalised it. She tried to convince herself that what was about to happen was, in fact, a good thing. The Suzerain would have to accept the incident as Kali’s will, and all Ideth’s problems would be solved." After so many fatuous justifications, it's dreadful when people start to believe their own nefarious lies, 'Her horrible death is a good thing.' 
• "When in doubt or in the presence of brutes, better to just agree. Ileana had taught her that." Wise advice.
• Iosh "shrugs. “It’s the perks of the status. I always bask alone. Well, almost always. I make exceptions for beautiful women and mysterious deities inhabiting old friends,” he adds with a wink. I’m not amused, and he drops his pretence." Definitely pen.
• "Even gods prefer to remain ignorant of certain things. Ben, Martha’s son, lay on top of a blanket in a wooden crate converted into a makeshift cradle. The tiny Narrum stared at Chiron with a finger in his mouth, indifferent to his mother’s grisly work. The centaur made a funny face, sticking his tongue out, and the child laughed. He was proof that the Narrum’s fear of creatures like centaurs was learned, not innate, and it was Chiron’s ambition to free Ben’s generation from their ancestors’ prejudice and ignorance." One can only hope, let's all pray.
• "A gruesome and inefficient way to gain sustenance, for sure. Chiron was grateful for the fact he didn’t need to eat or breathe."
• Hades to Chiron, ""Hel and I decided to put aside our differences for the greater good. She was furious when she learnt of what you and Zeus we conspiring. And man, you don’t want to see that creature furious, trust me. She takes after her father." Hell has no fury like a woman’s scorn.
• "Chiron often claimed he would rather be hugged by a snake than have to deal with Artemis," I've felt like prey in my "insane" constrictor sister's embrace.
• Ileana Dveer, the Suzerain's daughter, as Hades' Trojan horse to destroy his brother Zeus? Punitive retribution, another unhealthy emotion of disordered characters. True human nature often wears masks. Ideth is duplicitous, a hostage conveyor with a Wyrd deliverable (Dveer/deliver?). Chiron offers Ideth's head on a platter, a sacrificial lamb. Amnesia is a well worn trope in entertainment. How, why was I brainwashed, by whom and who the Hel am I? Everything originates from the familiar, but here, timeless allegory, coupled with thoughtful writing, is fresh and original again. On the surface, Wyrd Gods is a mere fantastical journey. Animal Farm by George Orwell was only about the idyllic life on a farm, right? I've fallen into @Susana Imaginário's wonderful rabbit hole where all is not Wonderland.
• “Ideth!” Only one thing mattered more to Chiron than his friend, and that was his vision for Aegea – a gift from Chronos for him to turn into the perfect, ideal world, where mortals – the only creatures who truly respect time – could live a peaceful existence with their gods. A beautiful dream; a worthy dream. “You can have Ideth.” For the second time in Chiron’s life, he cried. I’m sorry, unbridled one. Artemis lowered her bow slowly, and the corners of her mouth turned upwards. “Come, Bertho, we have a dryad to catch.”"" A superb cliffhanger lead-in to the second half.

 

[Susana Imaginário 436]

16 hours ago, Frank said:

a Wyrd deliverable (Dveer/deliver?).

 

 

@Frank 

This was actually going to be last week's Timelessness Fun Fact Friday on Twitter but I forgot to write the post (no one seemed to miss it anyway, so I'll probably stop doing it...)

Spoiler

 

Dveer is an anagram of Dever. This Portuguese word has a double meaning: Duty and To Owe. A beta reader pointed out Portuguese readers would think Dever was a pretty stupid surname (it is) so I changed it to the much better sounding Dveer (which is, in fact, closer to how I'd pronounce Dever with my Algarvian accent.) Dveer is also an anagram of Verde, meaning Green. 

Ileana and Alek are the only two characters with a surname. Make of that what you will 😉

 

 

This made my morning. I'm so happy you're enjoying the story but also terrified that it won't live up to the expectations later on... 😅

[Frank 503]

1 hour ago, Susana Imaginário said:

@Frank 

This was actually going to be last week's Timelessness Fun Fact Friday on Twitter but I forgot to write the post (no one seemed to miss it anyway, so I'll probably stop doing it...)

  Hide contents

 

Dveer is an anagram of Dever. This Portuguese word has a double meaning: Duty and To Owe. A beta reader pointed out Portuguese readers would think Dever was a pretty stupid surname (it is) so I changed it to the much better sounding Dveer (which is, in fact, closer to how I'd pronounce Dever with my Algarvian accent.) Dveer is also an anagram of Verde, meaning Green. 

Ileana and Alek are the only two characters with a surname. Make of that what you will 😉
 

 

 

 

This made my morning. I'm so happy you're enjoying the story but also terrified that it won't live up to the expectations later on... 😅

I'm glad you forgot. 😉 Twitter's loss is Page Chewing's gain. Thanks for sharing your Timelessness Fun Fact. Dveer is a great name choice, @Susana Imaginário

Spoiler

Duty and obligation can be a double-edged sword in familial relations, cutting through generations, old to young and back again. We absolutely owe our parents, but not after any abuse and toxicity, a betrayal of love and trust. The Dveer/Verde anagram is excellent as well. With Alek as her father, no wonder Ileana seeks greener environments.

That's the Catch-22 (I want to read Joseph Heller's classic), isn't it? A writer wants people to read their work, which then makes them worry about disappointment, especially playing the expectations' game.

[Frank 503]

3/4  until  CHAPTER THIRTEEN 193-286, 94 pages

Spoiler

• "The fact is, the Narrum have the instinct to possess and the Anann the instinct to protect. The Suzerain merely found something that both races agree is worth possessing and protecting, like gold or precious stones, that’s all.” I’m left aghast. “Did you just compare women to currency?”" Yeah, he did. "You will. Relax." 😡
• "Before he left, Agnar asked Ileana to obey her father’s wishes. That, of course, motivated her to do what she did – disobey him. If there’s a sure way to make a wilful young woman do something, it is to order her to do the opposite. .... Miscommunication amongst mortals causes more problems than all the gods combined, it seems." If only, 'What would you like me to know, pray tell?'
 • Iosh on Alek Dveer, “Alek prefers to exert his control from a distance, like a god. You know how much Narrum fear what they can’t see, what they don’t understand. Fear promotes worship and obedience. The mystery surrounding the Suzerain gives him power but not the means to apply it.” "Control to max, 'I know, I'll take the ultimate authority, become his oracle, or better yet, become his embodiment on Aegea. Singular domination. Fear me. If that means objectifying women, well, God decreed.'
• Ileana, "As her lifeblood spurted out of her arteries, a realisation formed in her mind. Somehow she knew that there was a goddess whose talent lay with souls: their creation, alteration, and destruction. Ileana had to pray to that goddess to give the Narrum back their souls, taken by the jealous gods of old as Agnar often implied to her in his stories. The certainty was so strong, Ileana couldn’t understand how she’d forgotten such knowledge in the first place."
• "Two smouldering eyes appeared in the three-dimensional darkness. “Hello, Ileana,” said a husky voice. “My name is Hades. We don’t have much time, so I’ll just get the bad news out of the way: You’re dead. But I can help fix that if you agree to do something for me. What do you say?” 'Yeah, all you have to do is kill your father, easy peasy.'
• "Ileana’s disappointment cuts through my annoyance with her. It’s obvious now that Ideth had pretended to be her friend in those dark days. Another betrayal." "“A son for a daughter,” Odin murmurs to himself. Ulla looks triumphant. Fruckst! Ileana and I think in unison. “One does need a very strong reason to pray to Chronos.” Odin’s words chill me to the core." A confirmation and major reveals. The plot thickens.
• "Seshat arrived right after the queen, lamenting the fact she’d ‘missed the action.’" Murder, RIP Fabrian.
• "They tie the Dharkan to the long wall, next to the remains, and beat him with vicious relish encouraged by the crowd, who continue to shout insults, shrieking with excitement. Narrum and Anann together in a violent, hateful display. The Suzerain would be so proud." The mob smells blood and righteousness. A shark feeding frenzy, no offense to sharks. Hatred multiplied exponentially..
• "Ileana had missed him, or so her Wyrd claimed. Funny how the gods called themselves fated while showing no consideration for the fate of the mortals whose bodies they took."
• "Legend has it that Elysian horses were Gaea’s first sentient creations, a link between nature, gods and mortals." The glue? Could't resist, maybe I'm just knackered.
• It just dawned on me (where's Eos' eye?), not once have I shook my head suspending disbelief. The dialogue and action are grippingly realistic. @Susana Imaginário bravo!
• Ending line of CHAPTER 12, "It was time to pray." CHAPTER THIRTEEN Of Predators and Their Prey

 

[Frank 503]

4/4  End  pages 287-388, 102 pages

Spoiler

• "“Oh please, spare me.” Occa pushed open the door to Arianh’s room and walked in ahead of her. Ulla stood there wrapped in a sheet, barefoot, holding her sword, looking vulnerable and confused like a child seeking refuge in their parents’ room after a bad dream." I can hear Occa's smug, throaty drawl. My mind's eye vividly sees young Ulla with her wooden sword in pajamas (with feet of course) at the foot of her parent's bed. Sight and sound emanate from the page.
• "The Narrum chatted merrily and loudly. It seemed to Arianh that their race could not distinguish celebration from ceremony. Every gathering was an opportunity for them to make noise." Like a stereotypical Irish wake. Ireland the Emerald Isle. Verde.
° Arianh, "Maybe Occa was right; she should act more like a queen and demand respect instead of friendship." Especially around exploiters.
• "She hated the freezing teleportation portal. The first time she’d visited the Stump, one of her escorts had lost an arm during the process and bled to death at her feet." Another purposeful allusion to death at Ileana's feet.
• "He all but punches me when he pushes me away. “There will be consequences.” Narcissists love to threaten. "Alek always liked to make sure his audience was paying attention. Failure to provide a clear reply to his every question was severely penalised." Must always have the spotlight. Your complete interest in them and theirs is taken as granted. The world "rightly"revolves around them, even as they've all wrong. 
• "Odin hated when (Seshat, the goddess of writing) showed off, reminding him that he only had a mortal’s senses to orient himself. “Be more specific, burn you.”" "Odin had to keep reminding himself that the goddess had a tendency to take every word literally. Once he’d cursed to himself one too many times in her presence and she set him on fire. Not actual fire, of course, but real enough for the experience to be forever burned in his memory if not on his skin." I literally love this. Well not literally, my e-reader has not been violated. Innuendo touché @Susana Imaginário (hail Chris Traeger)
• "Seshat closed her eyes briefly and changed into her usual male dryad form, then uttered a summoning and moments later a huge winged creature with a woman’s head and a lion’s body appeared."  Unfortunately a male scribe is more comfortable for the masses, somehow more credible, in our chauvinistic society. Old bad habits are hard to break.
• "the worst part of being a god was having so little insight on how time works. Chronos was the most reclusive of deities; he’d never directly imposed himself on his creations and so his creations never bothered to learn anything about him. In retrospect, Odin considered this to have been a huge oversight."
• Odin in Uncle Agnar's dryad body, "These days he spent more energy concealing his thoughts than actually thinking them. He was becoming paranoid and stupid – just like a mortal." 
• "“You’re not a god. You don’t have what it takes to be a god. You say you don’t like them, and yet you pretend to be one. Why is that? I think you envy the gods, and you fear them because you’re just a weak coward like all the other tyrants, mortal and god alike, hiding behind the power you usurped."" Alek Dveer is empty inside, so in compensation, he diminishes others to 'elevate' himself.

Reflections:

Spoiler

• No flashing timestamps are required to add another's perspective to an established scene. Time is switched back without hitch by subtlety signifying a storm, funeral, breakup, etc. 
• Our protagonist Goddess inside a horny (not the Elysian horse) OG Ileana dryad engaged with the Dharkan inside a cave equals hot ravishment with the freezing wraith. 
• Wyrd/weird puns, pray prey play (and alliteration apparently) never get old. Timelessness. 
• From initial reading, even my sieve mind couldn't forget Cornus' murder. I was devastated, all over again. Tragedy compounds, as we go from the wraith's precious slaughtered horse to Alek's wrath (another deadly sin, like envy). 
• 16 chapters of Wyrd Ileana interlaced with 12 Interludes (10 each spotlighting a different character plus an intro and outro), a literary hand-holding that lengthens the book's span and reach impressively. 
• The Gods aren't always benevolent, often selfish, solitary and sacrificing supreme beings. Gods are no different than us (whom they created in their own image) in reverting to viewing people, places and things through their own subjective lens. Psyche, Goddess of the soul, wants to left alone. Chronos, a plotting primordial deity who along with Gaea and Kali start the novel, thinks Butterfly's uniqueness and potential are being wasted and better used by sending her back to Niflheim, or probably just using her. The world is full of users. Even worse than cruel gods is a power-tripping false one, the Suzerain is the worst (shoutout Jean-Ralphio). Though Zeus and the Suzerain are down, both will undoubtedly return even worse and mad as Hel. 
• Ideth encapsulated love brilliantly, a depth and commitment that can only be born from (likely heart-breaking) experience. She's a mama bear desperate to retrieve her cub, her blue-eyed baby boy, willing to fell Ileana as sacrifice to the false God who holds her son.
• The Wyrd split personality is a competition that makes two less than one. Infatuated, in the moment, enamored OG Ileana is, like the entire book, very funny. I laughed, chuckled and smiled often. The wit is not forced, it flows. As with all good humor, timing is everything and here it doesn't miss a beat. 

• Constructing a cohesive, comical, captivating novel takes considerable craft and a lot of time. Now it's time for "The Dharkan."

[Susana Imaginário 436]

@Frank Where were you when I needed a critique partner? 😂 I believe the book would have been a lot better with your insight.
Thank you so much for your detailed analysis/discussion. It's been a pleasure to read and wonderful to know I've done something right. 😅 May you enjoy The Dharkan as much if not more than Wyrd Gods. 

P.S. - I too want to the read Catch-22. It's been on my TBR for years and years... Let me know when you star and I'll join you (if you're interested, of course).  

[Frank 503]

32 minutes ago, Susana Imaginário said:

@Frank Where were you when I needed a critique partner? 😂 I believe the book would have been a lot better with your insight.
Thank you so much for your detailed analysis/discussion. It's been a pleasure to read and wonderful to know I've done something right. 😅 May you enjoy The Dharkan as much if not more than Wyrd Gods. 

P.S. - I too want to the read Catch-22. It's been on my TBR for years and years... Let me know when you star and I'll join you (if you're interested, of course).  

@Susana Imaginário Your book gives on so many levels, I'm just reacting from it, plus it's frosting funny. Thank you for your generous, kind words, and coming from the honest author herself, wow! A great book gets even better shared. Let's definitely do Catch-22, I'm all in. Cheers.

[Varsha 666]

23 hours ago, Frank said:

@Susana Imaginário Your book gives on so many levels, I'm just reacting from it, plus it's frosting funny. Thank you for your generous, kind words, and coming from the honest author herself, wow! A great book gets even better shared. Let's definitely do Catch-22, I'm all in. Cheers.

Agree! Sharing the book is great, and my reading has been enhanced significantly for having your comments to follow along with @Frank

Count me in for reading catch-22 - been on my list too long and I would like to finally understand the metaphor

[Frank 503]

55 minutes ago, Varsha said:

Agree! Sharing the book is great, and my reading has been enhanced significantly for having your comments to follow along with @Frank

Count me in for reading catch-22 - been on my list too long and I would like to finally understand the metaphor

From Hel to Heller, yes, please.
"The more I know, the less I understand" Heart of the Matter by Don Henley. 
Your post warms my heart, @Varsha.

[Ric 502]

@Frank Really enjoyed reading your thoughts. Lots of good stuff, some of which I missed and some I'd forgotten.